brianus
Sep 13, 10:05 AM
probably due to latency involved in distributing the load across the two processors. that's the same problem a single Clovertown would have. Only true quads wouldn't suffer from these problems (earliest seems to be Harpertown in don't know if there are any non-MCM Xeons scheduled before then)
What about Tigerton (2007)? Isn't that a "true" quad?
What about Tigerton (2007)? Isn't that a "true" quad?
heels98
Sep 19, 07:08 AM
Sure, some people will always have a need for the fastest computer in the world. Some will find themselves stressing over the slightest increase in processor performance, screen resolution, graphics memory, whatever. No one here doubts that. But most of those people spend much more time working than reading and posting on internet message boards. Professionals use the tools that for them get the job done. I feel that the main point of using the Mac is lost on most PC users, and especially on those that cry out for the absolute fastest turbo-charged, slick, top benchmark machines. Maybe our processors are "outdated," but Mac OS X is not, nor is the work that I see coming from Mac professionals inferior to those with faster computers. The fact that OS X makes doing our jobs more elegant and faster, is far more important than whose processor is the fastest, or as Freud would put, whose >>>> is bigger.:o
gregor.hoch
Apr 6, 11:21 AM
I'm pretty sure you are aware that Apple would use LV CPU in 13", not ULV. That bumps us to 2.3GHz plus Turbo. You have said this yourself too and I already covered the reason in my other post.
This is just a MR article and surprisingly, they don't have much idea about the TDPs. Hopefully they will correct their article so people won't live in confusion.
Hellhammer, can I ask you something about this? There are SB LV and now SB ULV. Both are for laptops and the Macbook Pro 13 has SB LV, right? Or does the Pro has something else? What is the performance difference between an equally clocked ULV and LV?
Thanks!
This is just a MR article and surprisingly, they don't have much idea about the TDPs. Hopefully they will correct their article so people won't live in confusion.
Hellhammer, can I ask you something about this? There are SB LV and now SB ULV. Both are for laptops and the Macbook Pro 13 has SB LV, right? Or does the Pro has something else? What is the performance difference between an equally clocked ULV and LV?
Thanks!
QCassidy352
Apr 6, 11:58 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
So is that also true for the difference between SV and LV? If that is the case, the Core i7-2649M you cite above (2.3 LV chip) should be faster compared to the 2.3 i5 in the low end Pro 13?
Thanks!
It would be about as fast. The IGP is 150MHz slower though so graphics wise it would be slightly slower. chrmjenkins explained some smaller details but in terms of performance, i7-2649M should be similar to i5-2520M.
Sure clock speed isn't everything. But you better go read up some more on Tue Intel HD3000 IGP. You're using facts from the STD voltage SB IGP and applying them to the ULV SB IGP. Go read about the graphics on the Samsung Series 9 laptops. The 13" model uses this very chip cited. It shows greater than a 50% drop in graphics performance from the 320m to ULV IGP used in SB.
This has been the problem all along with everyone. They're attributing facts that are actually fallacies to this Intel IGP.
Remember that those are numbers under Windows. Anand mentioned in his 2011 MBP review that Intel HD 3000 has brilliant drivers in OS X, and in general it beat the 320M in OS X too. In Windows it got badly beaten by 320M. Sure the LV and especially ULV IGP will be slower than 320M, even in OS X but it may not be as bad as 50% drop.
True. But here's the thing. Apple generally updates these about one a year. With such a slow upgrade cycle, you'd like to see significant improvement on each update. To stay the same would be pretty mediocre. To actually move backwards is just sad.
And yes, I realize options are limited here by the spat between intel and nvidea and by the size of the air (not enough room for a big dedicated card). So I don't know what the right answer is. All I know is I won't be tempted by an upgrade to CPU when it comes with a gpu downgrade.
So is that also true for the difference between SV and LV? If that is the case, the Core i7-2649M you cite above (2.3 LV chip) should be faster compared to the 2.3 i5 in the low end Pro 13?
Thanks!
It would be about as fast. The IGP is 150MHz slower though so graphics wise it would be slightly slower. chrmjenkins explained some smaller details but in terms of performance, i7-2649M should be similar to i5-2520M.
Sure clock speed isn't everything. But you better go read up some more on Tue Intel HD3000 IGP. You're using facts from the STD voltage SB IGP and applying them to the ULV SB IGP. Go read about the graphics on the Samsung Series 9 laptops. The 13" model uses this very chip cited. It shows greater than a 50% drop in graphics performance from the 320m to ULV IGP used in SB.
This has been the problem all along with everyone. They're attributing facts that are actually fallacies to this Intel IGP.
Remember that those are numbers under Windows. Anand mentioned in his 2011 MBP review that Intel HD 3000 has brilliant drivers in OS X, and in general it beat the 320M in OS X too. In Windows it got badly beaten by 320M. Sure the LV and especially ULV IGP will be slower than 320M, even in OS X but it may not be as bad as 50% drop.
True. But here's the thing. Apple generally updates these about one a year. With such a slow upgrade cycle, you'd like to see significant improvement on each update. To stay the same would be pretty mediocre. To actually move backwards is just sad.
And yes, I realize options are limited here by the spat between intel and nvidea and by the size of the air (not enough room for a big dedicated card). So I don't know what the right answer is. All I know is I won't be tempted by an upgrade to CPU when it comes with a gpu downgrade.
azzurri000
Sep 18, 11:51 PM
1. It's Merom. Not Memrom, Menron, Memron or even L. Ron.
I got a good laugh out of the MacRumors Memron movement (of sorts)!
I got a good laugh out of the MacRumors Memron movement (of sorts)!
Porchland
Aug 7, 04:11 PM
Looks very nice. Spaces will become a "how did we live without this?" feature as expose already has.
Does anyone know when we can expect a video of the WWDC to be uploaded??:confused:
I can't really tell how Spaces will work the Expose.
Apple's Leopard Sneak Peak says:
Configure your Spaces by visiting the Dashboard and Exposé preference pane in System Preferences. Add rows and columns until you have all the desktop real estate you need. Arrange your Spaces as you see fit, then assign what function keys you want to control them. You can also lock specific applications to specific Spaces, so you’ll always know where, say, Safari or Keynote is at all times.
I could the simulteneous use of both getting a little confusing.
My main concern overall about Leopard is that feature creep is going to cut into ease of use.
Does anyone know when we can expect a video of the WWDC to be uploaded??:confused:
I can't really tell how Spaces will work the Expose.
Apple's Leopard Sneak Peak says:
Configure your Spaces by visiting the Dashboard and Exposé preference pane in System Preferences. Add rows and columns until you have all the desktop real estate you need. Arrange your Spaces as you see fit, then assign what function keys you want to control them. You can also lock specific applications to specific Spaces, so you’ll always know where, say, Safari or Keynote is at all times.
I could the simulteneous use of both getting a little confusing.
My main concern overall about Leopard is that feature creep is going to cut into ease of use.
srxtr
Apr 11, 01:19 PM
You guys know the average Joe don't go shopping for a new smart phone every other month?
This is a big deal to some of you guys only because you obsess over this topic almost daily.
This is a big deal to some of you guys only because you obsess over this topic almost daily.
Erasmus
Jul 20, 11:21 PM
The nec-plus-ultra would be thinking of a result and getting it (or saying it to your computer) like a photoshop user going: "Well, I would like the sun being more dominant in that picture, the power lines removed, and make those persons look younger". Boom. It happens.
<offtopic>
That would require Artificial Intelligence. If a computer can understand your speech, recognise your choice of words and understands that you don't neccessarily mean what you say all the time, then that's AI. If it can recognise specific objects in an "analogue" media such as a photograph, (I don't care if its a digital photo or not), it's AI. If it can then implement what it has learned alongside its infinite computational precision to remake a photo, while keeping it completely realistic, and making it look exactly how we wanted it to look, that's amazing, and lots of people will be out of jobs.
But if you have an AI system working for you, what's the point of working? ;)
BTW, I mean proper "hard" AI, not some pathetic "Ooh, forom your phone number you must live there, therefore I'll direct you to that Pizza Hut outlet! Aren't I smart!" type of AI.
<rant>
Erasmus 4 AI, Nuclear Power, GM, Stem Cell Research, and every other form of Science and Technology. Our lives will only benefit from all these, as will our community and our planet.
</rant>
</offtopic>
Don't Hurt Me.
I have to ask again, even though others already have, is Kentsfield a drop-in replacement for Conroe, if either a Mid-Tower or the iMac get Conroe? (Or Cloverton or whatever the desktop one is)
Still hanging out for WWDC2006.
<offtopic>
That would require Artificial Intelligence. If a computer can understand your speech, recognise your choice of words and understands that you don't neccessarily mean what you say all the time, then that's AI. If it can recognise specific objects in an "analogue" media such as a photograph, (I don't care if its a digital photo or not), it's AI. If it can then implement what it has learned alongside its infinite computational precision to remake a photo, while keeping it completely realistic, and making it look exactly how we wanted it to look, that's amazing, and lots of people will be out of jobs.
But if you have an AI system working for you, what's the point of working? ;)
BTW, I mean proper "hard" AI, not some pathetic "Ooh, forom your phone number you must live there, therefore I'll direct you to that Pizza Hut outlet! Aren't I smart!" type of AI.
<rant>
Erasmus 4 AI, Nuclear Power, GM, Stem Cell Research, and every other form of Science and Technology. Our lives will only benefit from all these, as will our community and our planet.
</rant>
</offtopic>
Don't Hurt Me.
I have to ask again, even though others already have, is Kentsfield a drop-in replacement for Conroe, if either a Mid-Tower or the iMac get Conroe? (Or Cloverton or whatever the desktop one is)
Still hanging out for WWDC2006.
Prom1
Aug 6, 03:28 AM
My Predictions:
Mac Pro:
-Fastest pro Mac ever shipped
-Hard drives, BTO 750gb, perpendicular recording
-New displays with HDMI, iSight & IR, even brighter
-Wireless-WiMax or 802.11n-whatever's ready first, otherwise BT 2.0+EDR, AE
-Multiple graphics card in a SLI/Crossfire like mode for extremely powerful graphics and stereo 3D, Quadro FX5500 and maybe also first Mac to be supported by the new Quadro Plex. 256MB std, 512MB BTO
-HD Audio
Isight on displays built-in but I only want that with higher resolution with Auto Focus ability.
> New displays with a thinner bezel around the LCD; higher contrast ratio 1200:1 minimum; denser pixel count, DLP technology with LEDs or with Zenon technology for the DLP; but more richer BLACK!
> BTO Bluetooth 2.0+EDR has been on the PowerBooks for at least 2 generations & on the MB+MBP!
> WiMax although sweet its long away; HUGE battery gobbler. 2 years minimum.
> I'd love for the MacBookPRO lineup to be more PRO with DUAL HDD configuration but without creating more heat.
> THe MBP should be equal in computing & graphical performance as the cheapest MacPro!
Mac Pro:
-Fastest pro Mac ever shipped
-Hard drives, BTO 750gb, perpendicular recording
-New displays with HDMI, iSight & IR, even brighter
-Wireless-WiMax or 802.11n-whatever's ready first, otherwise BT 2.0+EDR, AE
-Multiple graphics card in a SLI/Crossfire like mode for extremely powerful graphics and stereo 3D, Quadro FX5500 and maybe also first Mac to be supported by the new Quadro Plex. 256MB std, 512MB BTO
-HD Audio
Isight on displays built-in but I only want that with higher resolution with Auto Focus ability.
> New displays with a thinner bezel around the LCD; higher contrast ratio 1200:1 minimum; denser pixel count, DLP technology with LEDs or with Zenon technology for the DLP; but more richer BLACK!
> BTO Bluetooth 2.0+EDR has been on the PowerBooks for at least 2 generations & on the MB+MBP!
> WiMax although sweet its long away; HUGE battery gobbler. 2 years minimum.
> I'd love for the MacBookPRO lineup to be more PRO with DUAL HDD configuration but without creating more heat.
> THe MBP should be equal in computing & graphical performance as the cheapest MacPro!
Lord Appleseed
Apr 7, 11:19 PM
When you are as HUGE as best buy, and you are selling a product as huge as the iPad, it makes sense to create a demand. People do this all the time. You can't get it now, so the second it becomes available to you, you buy it in fear that you might have to wait another month. This happens all the time with a lot of products.
That makes not much sense to me, for I as customer would just go to the next Store/Retailer/Whatever that might have an iPad. Best Buy isn't the only one out there.
But maybe I just can't see the greater idea behind this so called "strategy".
That makes not much sense to me, for I as customer would just go to the next Store/Retailer/Whatever that might have an iPad. Best Buy isn't the only one out there.
But maybe I just can't see the greater idea behind this so called "strategy".
adamfilip
Sep 13, 12:57 PM
A bit pointless given that no software utilises the extra cores yet. But nice to know, I guess.
I'm still getting used to having two cores in my laptop!
No software such as, Cinema 4D, Motion, Aperture, Final Cut Pro etc
I'm still getting used to having two cores in my laptop!
No software such as, Cinema 4D, Motion, Aperture, Final Cut Pro etc
Funkymonk
Apr 19, 03:03 PM
Lol if apple was a religion it would have more extremists than Islam, Judaism, and Christianity combined! :eek:
RHutch
Sep 13, 09:21 AM
and this got negative votes because...??????????
Yeesh!
I was wondering the same thing. How can people not be pleased with this? The fact that the processors can be swapped, the fact that the OS recognizes all 8 cores, and that it was so difficult to use all of the processing power. What is there to complain about?
Yeesh!
I was wondering the same thing. How can people not be pleased with this? The fact that the processors can be swapped, the fact that the OS recognizes all 8 cores, and that it was so difficult to use all of the processing power. What is there to complain about?
gnasher729
Apr 19, 03:36 PM
Does anyone think that a normal person would actually confuse a Samsung Galaxy (especially with that huge "Samsung" on it) with an Apple iPhone when they're buying it?
I mean, is Apple going to claim that they're losing sales because the Galaxy is so close to the iPhone that people can't tell the difference? If so, that sure doesn't say much for the iPhone. Or it says a lot for the Galaxy.
You made up your mind and you argue accordingly. Consider this: Many people know the name "iPhone" and the way it looks, they may even know the name "Macintosh", but not the name "Apple". They might have talked to someone who used an iPhone and was very happy with it, were convinced to buy one, and go to a shop and pick up the phone that looks exactly like the one they wanted to buy. And end up with a Samsung phone when they actually wanted an iPhone.
Your second argument doesn't really make much sense. Samsung knew what the iPhone looks like, so if the Galaxy looks the same, it is because Samsung decided that it should look that way. Confusion surely goes both ways, so there would be a danger for Samsung that someone wanting to buy a Galaxy ends up buying an iPhone. Samsung had to know and accept this. So obviously Samsung is of the opinion that if people who want an iPhone buy a Galaxy by mistake, and people who want a Galaxy buy an iPhone by mistake, then Samsung will overall benefit. Doesn't seem to say much for the Galaxy, if they try to create this confusion.
I mean, is Apple going to claim that they're losing sales because the Galaxy is so close to the iPhone that people can't tell the difference? If so, that sure doesn't say much for the iPhone. Or it says a lot for the Galaxy.
You made up your mind and you argue accordingly. Consider this: Many people know the name "iPhone" and the way it looks, they may even know the name "Macintosh", but not the name "Apple". They might have talked to someone who used an iPhone and was very happy with it, were convinced to buy one, and go to a shop and pick up the phone that looks exactly like the one they wanted to buy. And end up with a Samsung phone when they actually wanted an iPhone.
Your second argument doesn't really make much sense. Samsung knew what the iPhone looks like, so if the Galaxy looks the same, it is because Samsung decided that it should look that way. Confusion surely goes both ways, so there would be a danger for Samsung that someone wanting to buy a Galaxy ends up buying an iPhone. Samsung had to know and accept this. So obviously Samsung is of the opinion that if people who want an iPhone buy a Galaxy by mistake, and people who want a Galaxy buy an iPhone by mistake, then Samsung will overall benefit. Doesn't seem to say much for the Galaxy, if they try to create this confusion.
Peace
Aug 7, 04:12 PM
I thought an interesting part was more UB apps next week..
Office?
CS2 ?
Office?
CS2 ?
axio
Apr 9, 03:09 PM
Would AMD's APU be a solution?
generik
Sep 19, 02:45 AM
Check out the surveys of tens of thousands of computer users at Consumer Reports. Apple's laptop reliability is within 1% of the best in the industry, and in the desktop department, Apple is by far the most reliable; some PCs are nearly twice as likely to need repairs as Macs. Rumor sites are hardly the best place to look for computer reliability data...
Ok... I suppose you like to put that much stock into Consumer Reports published by unbiased organisations! Now please excuse me, I need to place my order for some Snake Oil to take advantage of this "Buy 1 get 1 free" promotion on TV :rolleyes:
I don't really believe in all those reports, to date I have owned countless PCs (actually a lot of Thinkpads) and never once have I gotten a DOA, but yet there was actually one champion who got 5 DOAs in a row. Sure it can be argued that forums are hardly the best place to draw your sample, but how can it possibly be SO bad?! When I hardly ever got a single bad PC?
Edit: Oh and by the way, I have dealt with Applecare twice at various times for the last 4 Macs I owned (1 PBG4, 2 Minis, 1 Macbook), I have to say I am not WOWed by Apple's service at all. Likewise if you ask around here you will find that Dell actually gives pretty no quibble service. Perhaps they know what they are selling is crap and hence are not surprised when it goes bad.. who knows... but I'd rather deal with a humble organisation than a "Think different" know-it-all turd.
Ok... I suppose you like to put that much stock into Consumer Reports published by unbiased organisations! Now please excuse me, I need to place my order for some Snake Oil to take advantage of this "Buy 1 get 1 free" promotion on TV :rolleyes:
I don't really believe in all those reports, to date I have owned countless PCs (actually a lot of Thinkpads) and never once have I gotten a DOA, but yet there was actually one champion who got 5 DOAs in a row. Sure it can be argued that forums are hardly the best place to draw your sample, but how can it possibly be SO bad?! When I hardly ever got a single bad PC?
Edit: Oh and by the way, I have dealt with Applecare twice at various times for the last 4 Macs I owned (1 PBG4, 2 Minis, 1 Macbook), I have to say I am not WOWed by Apple's service at all. Likewise if you ask around here you will find that Dell actually gives pretty no quibble service. Perhaps they know what they are selling is crap and hence are not surprised when it goes bad.. who knows... but I'd rather deal with a humble organisation than a "Think different" know-it-all turd.
Evangelion
Sep 14, 01:14 AM
Didn't you get the memo, Hyperthreading was a joke.
At worst, it slowed performance down by few percent. At best, it gave substantial boost in performance. And multitasking-tests clearly benefitted from HyperThreading. That said, Intel dropped it, because it apparently consumed too much power. But we might see HT in some future Intel-CPU's at some point, you never know.
HT as such is not a bad idea. Sun UltraSparc T1 uses such a scheme extensively.
At worst, it slowed performance down by few percent. At best, it gave substantial boost in performance. And multitasking-tests clearly benefitted from HyperThreading. That said, Intel dropped it, because it apparently consumed too much power. But we might see HT in some future Intel-CPU's at some point, you never know.
HT as such is not a bad idea. Sun UltraSparc T1 uses such a scheme extensively.
rooah1
Apr 7, 10:28 PM
These BB guys were making some odd and strange excuses for low stock. Made me run around on many occasions. They shouldn't be allowed to sell iPad. Apple take them away from these jack**s. :mad: You deserve it!!!!
Number 41
Apr 6, 04:24 PM
If you bought 2 Xooms would you have a Mazda?
That's fantastic.
That's fantastic.
kenaustus
Jul 20, 08:52 PM
If Intel designates Kentsfield as a desktop processor it will make its way into Mac Pros as fast as the competition can deliver their desktop versions. Apple is now one of the "Intel Big Boys" and there will be continual (internal & external) pressure not to be left behind.
I would also think Apple is getting ready for Kentsfield - they have had the same pre-release information that the other Intel Big Boys have received.
I think that the surprise will be next month when Steve J is talking about Leopard. He'll mention something like, "You might have read a bit about a new chip from Intel called Kentsfield. You might like to know that Leopard is designed to take full advantage of Kentsfield when it's released." He really doesn't need to say anything else - that alone will drive MS nuts.
With a quad core arriving rather fast I believe that Apple may be looking at the headless range. Right now there is only the mini and (upcoming) Pro. Lots of room in between the two and that room gets bigger with Kentsfield. It presents a very good argument for a mid range headless to fill the gap.
SInce the mini has been out for a while there will be a lot of users that "switched" to a Mac because of the mini and now went something more powerful - without loosing their investment in their display. If the Pro is overkill then APple is going to loose the upgrade. Others, like me, use a PB with a large display - mine is the 23". I don't want a huge tower under the table and I don't see the value of moving to a mini. I'll reach for the credit card after Kentsfield is released IF there is a mid-range that excites me.
I would also think Apple is getting ready for Kentsfield - they have had the same pre-release information that the other Intel Big Boys have received.
I think that the surprise will be next month when Steve J is talking about Leopard. He'll mention something like, "You might have read a bit about a new chip from Intel called Kentsfield. You might like to know that Leopard is designed to take full advantage of Kentsfield when it's released." He really doesn't need to say anything else - that alone will drive MS nuts.
With a quad core arriving rather fast I believe that Apple may be looking at the headless range. Right now there is only the mini and (upcoming) Pro. Lots of room in between the two and that room gets bigger with Kentsfield. It presents a very good argument for a mid range headless to fill the gap.
SInce the mini has been out for a while there will be a lot of users that "switched" to a Mac because of the mini and now went something more powerful - without loosing their investment in their display. If the Pro is overkill then APple is going to loose the upgrade. Others, like me, use a PB with a large display - mine is the 23". I don't want a huge tower under the table and I don't see the value of moving to a mini. I'll reach for the credit card after Kentsfield is released IF there is a mid-range that excites me.
hobo.hopkins
Apr 25, 01:50 PM
"a perfect storm", "overreaction", "typical for the us to sue.."
... sorry, but in what ways do I benefit by having apple track my whereabouts to the day and meter? why isn't there an opt-in (apart from the general 'eat **** or die' TOU) or at least an opt-out for this? why is it so easy to access the data?
... apple deserves to get a beating for this.
they're known for focussing on the user in terms of design and UI of theirdevices... they should also make the step to focus on their users best interest in terms of privacy and freedom, rather than their own greed.
You're right in asking why there isn't a way to opt-out of the collection or clear your past history more easily. To say that it is an invasion of privacy is just false, however, because the information remains private. Only those with access to your phone or computer can see the information.
... sorry, but in what ways do I benefit by having apple track my whereabouts to the day and meter? why isn't there an opt-in (apart from the general 'eat **** or die' TOU) or at least an opt-out for this? why is it so easy to access the data?
... apple deserves to get a beating for this.
they're known for focussing on the user in terms of design and UI of theirdevices... they should also make the step to focus on their users best interest in terms of privacy and freedom, rather than their own greed.
You're right in asking why there isn't a way to opt-out of the collection or clear your past history more easily. To say that it is an invasion of privacy is just false, however, because the information remains private. Only those with access to your phone or computer can see the information.
jmsait19
Aug 11, 11:17 AM
Is it possible for Apple to release a phone sold in their stores that would work on all networks? Or have several versions of the phone that will work for Verizon, Cingular...
you mean sell an unlocked phone? that would be sweet. then the carrier couldn't cripple it. we would experience it as steve intended us to.
although they could get some kind of exclusive rights deal if they picked a carrier.
you mean sell an unlocked phone? that would be sweet. then the carrier couldn't cripple it. we would experience it as steve intended us to.
although they could get some kind of exclusive rights deal if they picked a carrier.
pdjudd
Mar 31, 03:18 PM
The Motorola Xoom ships with Honeycomb. It has been released. You miss that???
The source hasn't been released. It's the source code that people are talking about. The source code that Google has always released up till now.
The source hasn't been released. It's the source code that people are talking about. The source code that Google has always released up till now.